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V.164.154.17
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What action and inaction really are, and why even the wise mistake them.

It is easy to assume action is just the body in motion and inaction just sitting still. Krishna says the line falls deeper than that, so deep that even discerning people get it wrong.

16Chapter 4
The verseSpoken by Krishna
Voices19 commentators · 6 schools · modern voices
The readingAbout 5 minutes, unhurried
किं कर्म किमकर्मेति कवयोऽप्यत्र मोहिताः। तत्ते कर्म प्रवक्ष्यामि यज्ज्ञात्वा मोक्ष्यसेऽशुभात्
kiṁ karma kim akarmeti kavayo ’pyatra mohitāḥ tat te karma pravakṣhyāmi yaj jñātvā mokṣhyase ’śhubhāt

What is action? What is inaction? Even the wise are confused about this. I will explain action to you, and knowing it, you will be freed from evil.

Bhagavad Gita 4.16
—:—— / —:——

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Sanskrit recitation by Swami Brahmānanda

Audio from the Gītā Supersite, IIT Kanpur

Having just urged you to act, Krishna pauses to name the puzzle underneath that command: before you can act rightly you must know what truly counts as action and what counts as its absence.

Where they agreethe convergence

Before they part on where the line falls, all of them agree the question is genuinely hard, hard enough that even the wise stumble, so it cannot be settled by glancing at the outward deed.

Across schools and centuries the commentators come to the same ground. These are the points they share, and the voices that hold each one.

6schools

Sit with the real puzzle: what is action, and what is inaction? It is hard enough that even the wise lose their way here, so do not trust the easy answer your eyes give you.

Across Advaita, Viśiṣṭādvaita, Dvaita, Śuddhādvaita, Kashmir Śaiva, Bhakti, and the modern voicesŚaṅkara · Ānandagiri · Madhusūdana · Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati · Rāmānuja · Vedānta Deśika · Madhva · Jayatīrtha · Vallabha · Puruṣottama · Abhinavagupta · Śrīdhara · Viśvanātha · Baladeva · Jñāneśvar · Tilak · Ramsukhdas
In Śaṅkara, Ānandagiri, and 16 others’ words

Krishna now raises the central puzzle of the chapter: 'What is action (karma) and what is inaction (akarma)?' He says that even the wise, the kavis, the discerning, are deluded here. This is the load-bearing claim of the verse and nearly every commentator builds on it: the question of what truly counts as action and non-action is genuinely hard, so hard that learned and perceptive people get it wrong. The point is to puncture the easy assumption that action is just obvious bodily movement and inaction just sitting still. Several note that Krishna explicitly forbids that shallow reading: do not think 'action is plainly the well-known bodily activity, inaction is its non-doing, and there is nothing left to understand.' If even the wise stumble, the matter clearly holds a depth ordinary perception misses.

Asked in question 1, below
4schools

Because the matter is this hard, Krishna does not leave you to guess; he promises to set it forth himself, fully and clearly, so the doubt is cut and you can understand before you act.

Across Advaita, Dvaita, Śuddhādvaita, Bhakti, and the modern voicesŚaṅkara · Madhusūdana · Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati · Jayatīrtha · Vallabha · Puruṣottama · Baladeva · Śrīdhara · Tilak
In Śaṅkara, Madhusūdana, and 8 others’ words

Because the matter is so hard, Krishna promises to teach it himself, and to teach it well. 'That action I shall declare to you (pravakshyami)' is read by many as an emphatic, doubt-cutting declaration: I will set it forth fully, with the cutting of all doubt, in a way easy to grasp. Several commentators add a grammatical observation: the single word akarma carries a hidden 'a-' (the negative prefix), so that one statement covers both action and inaction together. The teaching is not idle; it is given so the student can act rightly, having understood first.

4schools

And this is no idle riddle: knowing the true nature of action and inaction is itself what frees you from the inauspicious, from the long round of birth and death you are bound to.

Across Advaita, Viśiṣṭādvaita, Śuddhādvaita, Bhakti, and the modern voicesŚaṅkara · Madhusūdana · Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati · Rāmānuja · Vedānta Deśika · Puruṣottama · Baladeva · Śrīdhara · Jñāneśvar · Ramsukhdas
In Śaṅkara, Madhusūdana, and 9 others’ words

The verse states a definite, liberating fruit: 'knowing which (yaj jnatva) you will be freed from the inauspicious (ashubha).' The commentators agree that ashubha here means samsara, the bondage of transmigration, the endless round of rebirth driven by action and its results. So the right understanding of action and inaction is not academic; it is the very knowledge that releases. Knowing the true nature of action and non-action is itself the path out of bondage.

3schools

So do not act by following the crowd or by inherited habit; act only after you have truly inquired and understood, and receive this teaching with held, undivided attention.

Across Advaita, Śuddhādvaita, Bhakti, and the modern voicesDhanapati · Vallabha · Śrīdhara · Viśvanātha · Ramsukhdas
In Dhanapati, Vallabha, and 3 others’ words

Many commentators frame the verse as a direct rebuttal of a tempting shortcut: that one may simply follow inherited custom, the way of the crowd, or judge for oneself on the spot what to do, without real inquiry. Against this they read Krishna as insisting that action be undertaken only after reflection (vichara), only after one has genuinely understood its special nature, not on the strength of mere worldly tradition. The warning is doubled precisely because the discerning have stumbled here: the instruction is to be received with held, undivided attention, not slackly.

Asked in question 2, below

This is the shared ground; it can be carried as it is. Below is where they differ.

Where they differthe divergence

The question they answer differently
What does Krishna mean by "inaction" (akarma), and where does the line between true action and true inaction actually fall?
The traditional commentators
Advaita VedāntaŚaṅkara, Ānandagiri, Madhusūdana
The naive view, that action is plain bodily doing and inaction its absence, is wrong; the very fact the wise stumble proves a deeper teaching is needed.
Reads the verse as why the question is hard and what its resolution does.
Advaita Vedānta, in their fuller words

These commentators keep the focus on why the question is hard and what its resolution does. Shankara is brief and structural: he rejects the naive view that action is just bodily doing and inaction its mere absence, and asks why, if it were that simple, Krishna would bother to teach it. Anandagiri and Dhanapati frame the verse as answering an objection (work seems plain, with no real difficulty in it) and reply that the very fact the learned are deluded proves an authoritative teaching is needed. Madhusudana gives the most vivid image: as the still trees on a riverbank seem to move to a person in a moving boat, and moving men nearby seem still, so even the discerning are brought to an inability to decide what is truly action and what is truly non-action, for it is most hard to determine. Nilakantha adds that even where action is necessary it must not be done by mere habit; a particular knowledge is enjoined first.

Śaṅkara · Ānandagiri · Madhusūdana · Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati
ViśiṣṭādvaitaRāmānuja, Vedānta Deśika
Inaction is not the absence of action but true self-knowledge carried inside fruitless action done as worship of the Lord.
Akarma qualifies, karma is principal; the knowledge is itself the fruit of acting.
Viśiṣṭādvaita, in their fuller words

These commentators give 'inaction' (akarma) a precise positive content: it is not the absence of action but the knowledge of the doer, the self, as it truly is, that is, true self-knowledge included within action. The action to be performed is action done with no eye to its fruit, in the form of worship of the Lord, and it carries this self-knowledge inside it. On this reading akarma is the qualifier and karma is the principal; the verse promises that the very knowledge of the action to be done is itself the fruit of performing it. One source carefully derives where the actual command to act is located in the surrounding verses, treating the present verse as defining what is to be known while the prior 'therefore perform action' supplies the doing.

Rāmānuja · Vedānta Deśika
Asked in question 3, below
DvaitaMadhva, Jayatīrtha
Action proper is to be performed; inaction and forbidden action are to be known as things to shun, included here only by implication.
Tied to the prior command 'do action' and the next verse on vikarma.
Dvaita, in their fuller words

These commentators tie the verse tightly to the preceding command 'do action,' and read it as Krishna's way of stressing how hard that prescribed action is to know rightly, so that a clear statement is needed. They also look ahead: because the next verse takes up prohibited action (vikarma) too, the single word 'inaction' (akarma) here stands by implication for that further category as well. The crucial distinction they draw is between what is to be performed and what is to be known-and-avoided: action proper is to be performed, while inaction and the rest are things to be known as things to shun. This is why, on their reading, Krishna says specifically 'that action I shall declare,' with inaction included only by implication.

Madhva · Jayatīrtha
ŚuddhādvaitaVallabha, Puruṣottama
No safe step is possible until prescribed, non-prescribed, and forbidden action are sorted by reflection rather than by inherited custom.
Reads the inauspicious one is freed from as forbidden action (vikarma).
Śuddhādvaita, in their fuller words

These commentators read the verse against a threefold sorting of action, prescribed action (karma), non-prescribed (akarma), and forbidden (vikarma), and insist the seeker can take no safe step until these are sorted out by reflection rather than by mere worldly tradition. One reads ashubha, the inauspicious one is freed from, specifically as vikarma, the forbidden 'third.' The other treats the verse as answering a worry that work might be merely a means to worldly fruit, and reads the deliverance as release from precisely that fruit-seeking action; the wise here are 'knowers of word and meaning' thrown into confusion. The shared accent is on asking the right question first.

Vallabha · Puruṣottama
Kashmir ŚaivaAbhinavagupta
The categories overlap: a tainted act sits inside an enjoined one, something auspicious inside a forbidden one, and action goes on even in stillness.
Only the later fire of discernment burns up both auspicious and inauspicious action.
Kashmir Śaiva, in their fuller words

This commentator gives the most fully worked-out account of why action is so hard to read. He denies that perfection comes from not acting alone. The difficulty is that the categories overlap: within an enjoined act there can be a tainted action, as in the slaying of the beast within the Agnishtoma sacrifice; within a prohibited act there can be something auspicious, as the killing of harmful creatures spares people distress; and even in not acting there is action, since deeds done by speech and mind go on inevitably and are hard to ward off without knowledge. Because of this depth, even the skilful are fooled, imagining 'this auspicious act will bring us good, and this not-undertaking will bring release.' His conclusion is distinctive: only the fire of discernment, to be spoken of later, can burn up the whole fuel of both auspicious and inauspicious action, and that fire alone is to be sought as refuge.

Abhinavagupta
Asked in question 4, below
BhaktiŚrīdhara, Viśvanātha, Baladeva
Act only after due inquiry alongside those who know the truth, never by following the herd, for even the wise are deceived here.
Like a counterfeit coin, motived actions pass for genuine and ensnare the doer.
Bhakti, in their fuller words

These commentators stress that action must not be done by following the herd but only after due inquiry (vichara), ideally alongside those who know the truth, and only after one has learned its special manner. Two of them frame the verse as answering an objection that there can be no real doubt about action, and reply that there is indeed doubt, because even the poets and wise are unable to determine the truth of it. One gives a striking image: just as a counterfeit coin looks genuine and deceives the eye, so even the actions of immensely powerful persons, those who could rival the creator in shaping a world, have proved to be 'motived' actions falsely imagined otherwise, ensnaring their doers; if such far-sighted ones are deceived, what of fools? Hence Krishna will tell it more clearly. The double warning is meant to fix the listener's attention.

Śrīdhara · Viśvanātha · Baladeva · Jñāneśvar
Modern voices teachers of the last two centuries, read together; they stand apart from the classical schools
A modern readingTilak, Ramsukhdas
Every deed of body, speech, and mind is action, and its real nature follows the inner disposition behind it, not the outward act.
Where there is no craving for fruit, no 'mine,' action does not bind and becomes akarma.
A modern reading, in their fuller words

Tilak focuses on the grammar and on guarding against a wrong reading: akarma is a negative compound whose prefix 'a-' can mean either 'absence of' action or 'impropriety of' action; since the next verse adds a third category, vikarma, the akarma here must mean particularly the literal 'abandonment of action' taught by the School of Renunciation, and he flags that, on his fuller reading, such literal abandonment is not the true meaning of akarma at all. Ramsukhdas relocates the whole question inward: ordinary people call bodily and sense activity 'action' and its cessation 'inaction,' but the Lord counts every deed of body, speech, and mind as action, and its real classification follows the bhava, the inner disposition, behind it. The same outwardly sattvic act becomes rajasic or tamasic if the doer's motive is, and where there is no desire for fruit, no 'mine,' no attachment, action does not bind and so becomes akarma; conversely a man full of attachment and craving is truly acting even while sitting still. The test is in the doer, not in the outer act.

Tilak · Ramsukhdas
Sit with these

A few questions to carry

These ask for understanding, not recall; each answer is settled by the commentary itself.

1
Krishna opens by saying that even the wise are confused about action and inaction. What does this confession establish?
2
On what basis does Krishna ask that action finally be undertaken, having raised this puzzle?
3
How does the Vishishtadvaita reading give 'inaction' (akarma) a positive content?
4
How does Abhinavagupta explain why even the skilful misread action?
For a second sitting3 more questions
5
What image does Madhusudana give for how the discerning are misled about action?
6
In the Dvaita reading, how do action proper and inaction differ in what they ask of the seeker?
7
What does the Shuddhadvaita reading insist must come before the seeker takes any step?

Carry this with youwhat stays

Stop measuring your life by what you outwardly do or do not do. The real classification of any deed follows the bhava, the inner disposition, behind it. The very same act, even one sattvic in its outer form, turns rajasic or tamasic if your motive does. A worship offered for personal gain is no longer pure; one offered to harm another is worse still. So watch the doer, not the doing. Where there is no craving for the fruit, no sense of 'mine,' no attachment, your action does not bind you at all, it has become akarma even while you act. And where attachment and craving sit in the heart, you are truly bound even while you sit perfectly still. The work, then, is quiet and continuous: examine the disposition you bring, again and again, for that is where freedom or bondage is actually decided.

Stop measuring your life by what you outwardly do or leave undone, and watch instead the disposition you bring; that is where freedom or bondage is quietly decided, again and again.

किं कर्म किमकर्मेति कवयोऽप्यत्र मोहिताः।kiṁ karma kim akarmeti kavayo ’pyatra mohitāḥ

Read deeper

Everything a full study holds, folded below.

Word by word17 terms
kimwhatkarmaactionkimwhatakarmainactionitithuskavayaḥthe wiseapievenatrain thismohitāḥare confusedtatthatteto youkarmaactionpravakṣhyāmiI shall explainyatwhichjñātvāknowingmokṣhyaseyou may free yourselfaśhubhātfrom inauspiciousness
All the commentary, woven togetherevery voice, in one place

The commentary, woven together

machine-assisted draft, pending review

Convergence

rishna now raises the central puzzle of the chapter: 'What is action (karma) and what is inaction (akarma)?' He says that even the wise, the kavis, the discerning, are deluded here. This is the load-bearing claim of the verse and nearly every commentator builds on it: the question of what truly counts as action and non-action is genuinely hard, so hard that learned and perceptive people get it wrong. The point is to puncture the easy assumption that action is just obvious bodily movement and inaction just sitting still. Several note that Krishna explicitly forbids that shallow reading: do not think 'action is plainly the well-known bodily activity, inaction is its non-doing, and there is nothing left to understand.' If even the wise stumble, the matter clearly holds a depth ordinary perception misses.

Braided from 18 commentators

Śaṅkarācārya · Śrī Ānandagiri · Madhusūdana Sarasvatī · Śrī Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati Sūri · Rāmānujācārya · Vedānta Deśika · Madhvācārya · Śrī Jayatīrtha · Vallabhācārya · Śrī Puruṣottama · Ācārya Abhinavagupta · Śrīdhara Svāmī · Śrīla Viśvanātha · Śrīla Baladeva · Sant Jñāneśvar · Lokmanya Tilak · Swami Ramsukhdas

Because the matter is so hard, Krishna promises to teach it himself, and to teach it well. 'That action I shall declare to you (pravakshyami)' is read by many as an emphatic, doubt-cutting declaration: I will set it forth fully, with the cutting of all doubt, in a way easy to grasp. Several commentators add a grammatical observation: the single word akarma carries a hidden 'a-' (the negative prefix), so that one statement covers both action and inaction together. The teaching is not idle; it is given so the student can act rightly, having understood first.

Braided from 10 commentators

Śaṅkarācārya · Madhusūdana Sarasvatī · Śrī Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati Sūri · Śrī Jayatīrtha · Vallabhācārya · Śrī Puruṣottama · Śrīla Baladeva · Śrīdhara Svāmī · Lokmanya Tilak

The verse states a definite, liberating fruit: 'knowing which (yaj jnatva) you will be freed from the inauspicious (ashubha).' The commentators agree that ashubha here means samsara, the bondage of transmigration, the endless round of rebirth driven by action and its results. So the right understanding of action and inaction is not academic; it is the very knowledge that releases. Knowing the true nature of action and non-action is itself the path out of bondage.

Braided from 11 commentators

Śaṅkarācārya · Madhusūdana Sarasvatī · Śrī Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati Sūri · Rāmānujācārya · Vedānta Deśika · Śrī Puruṣottama · Śrīla Baladeva · Śrīdhara Svāmī · Sant Jñāneśvar · Swami Ramsukhdas

Many commentators frame the verse as a direct rebuttal of a tempting shortcut: that one may simply follow inherited custom, the way of the crowd, or judge for oneself on the spot what to do, without real inquiry. Against this they read Krishna as insisting that action be undertaken only after reflection (vichara), only after one has genuinely understood its special nature, not on the strength of mere worldly tradition. The warning is doubled precisely because the discerning have stumbled here: the instruction is to be received with held, undivided attention, not slackly.

Dhanapati Sūri · Vallabhācārya · Śrīdhara Svāmī · Śrīla Viśvanātha · Swami Ramsukhdas

Divergence

Advaita Vedānta

These commentators keep the focus on why the question is hard and what its resolution does. Shankara is brief and structural: he rejects the naive view that action is just bodily doing and inaction its mere absence, and asks why, if it were that simple, Krishna would bother to teach it. Anandagiri and Dhanapati frame the verse as answering an objection (work seems plain, with no real difficulty in it) and reply that the very fact the learned are deluded proves an authoritative teaching is needed. Madhusudana gives the most vivid image: as the still trees on a riverbank seem to move to a person in a moving boat, and moving men nearby seem still, so even the discerning are brought to an inability to decide what is truly action and what is truly non-action, for it is most hard to determine. Nilakantha adds that even where action is necessary it must not be done by mere habit; a particular knowledge is enjoined first.

Śaṅkarācārya · Śrī Ānandagiri · Madhusūdana Sarasvatī · Śrī Nīlakaṇṭha · Dhanapati Sūri

Viśiṣṭādvaita

These commentators give 'inaction' (akarma) a precise positive content: it is not the absence of action but the knowledge of the doer, the self, as it truly is, that is, true self-knowledge included within action. The action to be performed is action done with no eye to its fruit, in the form of worship of the Lord, and it carries this self-knowledge inside it. On this reading akarma is the qualifier and karma is the principal; the verse promises that the very knowledge of the action to be done is itself the fruit of performing it. One source carefully derives where the actual command to act is located in the surrounding verses, treating the present verse as defining what is to be known while the prior 'therefore perform action' supplies the doing.

Rāmānujācārya · Vedānta Deśika

Dvaita

These commentators tie the verse tightly to the preceding command 'do action,' and read it as Krishna's way of stressing how hard that prescribed action is to know rightly, so that a clear statement is needed. They also look ahead: because the next verse takes up prohibited action (vikarma) too, the single word 'inaction' (akarma) here stands by implication for that further category as well. The crucial distinction they draw is between what is to be performed and what is to be known-and-avoided: action proper is to be performed, while inaction and the rest are things to be known as things to shun. This is why, on their reading, Krishna says specifically 'that action I shall declare,' with inaction included only by implication.

Madhvācārya · Śrī Jayatīrtha

Śuddhādvaita

These commentators read the verse against a threefold sorting of action, prescribed action (karma), non-prescribed (akarma), and forbidden (vikarma), and insist the seeker can take no safe step until these are sorted out by reflection rather than by mere worldly tradition. One reads ashubha, the inauspicious one is freed from, specifically as vikarma, the forbidden 'third.' The other treats the verse as answering a worry that work might be merely a means to worldly fruit, and reads the deliverance as release from precisely that fruit-seeking action; the wise here are 'knowers of word and meaning' thrown into confusion. The shared accent is on asking the right question first.

Vallabhācārya · Śrī Puruṣottama

Kashmir Shaivism

This commentator gives the most fully worked-out account of why action is so hard to read. He denies that perfection comes from not acting alone. The difficulty is that the categories overlap: within an enjoined act there can be a tainted action, as in the slaying of the beast within the Agnishtoma sacrifice; within a prohibited act there can be something auspicious, as the killing of harmful creatures spares people distress; and even in not acting there is action, since deeds done by speech and mind go on inevitably and are hard to ward off without knowledge. Because of this depth, even the skilful are fooled, imagining 'this auspicious act will bring us good, and this not-undertaking will bring release.' His conclusion is distinctive: only the fire of discernment, to be spoken of later, can burn up the whole fuel of both auspicious and inauspicious action, and that fire alone is to be sought as refuge.

Ācārya Abhinavagupta

Bhakti

These commentators stress that action must not be done by following the herd but only after due inquiry (vichara), ideally alongside those who know the truth, and only after one has learned its special manner. Two of them frame the verse as answering an objection that there can be no real doubt about action, and reply that there is indeed doubt, because even the poets and wise are unable to determine the truth of it. One gives a striking image: just as a counterfeit coin looks genuine and deceives the eye, so even the actions of immensely powerful persons, those who could rival the creator in shaping a world, have proved to be 'motived' actions falsely imagined otherwise, ensnaring their doers; if such far-sighted ones are deceived, what of fools? Hence Krishna will tell it more clearly. The double warning is meant to fix the listener's attention.

Śrīdhara Svāmī · Śrīla Viśvanātha · Śrīla Baladeva · Sant Jñāneśvar

Modern

Tilak focuses on the grammar and on guarding against a wrong reading: akarma is a negative compound whose prefix 'a-' can mean either 'absence of' action or 'impropriety of' action; since the next verse adds a third category, vikarma, the akarma here must mean particularly the literal 'abandonment of action' taught by the School of Renunciation, and he flags that, on his fuller reading, such literal abandonment is not the true meaning of akarma at all. Ramsukhdas relocates the whole question inward: ordinary people call bodily and sense activity 'action' and its cessation 'inaction,' but the Lord counts every deed of body, speech, and mind as action, and its real classification follows the bhava, the inner disposition, behind it. The same outwardly sattvic act becomes rajasic or tamasic if the doer's motive is, and where there is no desire for fruit, no 'mine,' no attachment, action does not bind and so becomes akarma; conversely a man full of attachment and craving is truly acting even while sitting still. The test is in the doer, not in the outer act.

Lokmanya Tilak · Swami Ramsukhdas

A Seeker Asks

If even the wise cannot tell true action from true inaction by looking at what is outwardly done, then by what can I tell them apart?

First, take seriously that the puzzle is real and not yours alone: Krishna himself says even the discerning are deluded here, because the categories overlap and outward appearances mislead, like still trees seeming to move from a moving boat. Recognizing the difficulty is the first honest step, not a failure.

Śaṅkarācārya · Madhusūdana Sarasvatī · Ācārya Abhinavagupta

Then move the test inward. The decisive marker is not the visible act but the disposition behind it: where there is no desire for fruit, no sense of 'mine,' and no attachment, the deed does not bind and is in truth inaction, while a heart full of craving is truly acting even in outward stillness. The same act shifts in nature as the motive shifts.

Swami Ramsukhdas

Understand action this way and it ceases to be academic: knowing the true nature of action and non-action is itself the knowledge that frees you from the inauspicious, from samsara. That is why Krishna does not leave you to guess from custom or from the crowd but promises to declare it fully himself, so that you act only after real reflection.

Śaṅkarācārya · Rāmānujācārya · Śrīdhara Svāmī · Vallabhācārya

Contemplation

Stop measuring your life by what you outwardly do or do not do. The real classification of any deed follows the bhava, the inner disposition, behind it. The very same act, even one sattvic in its outer form, turns rajasic or tamasic if your motive does. A worship offered for personal gain is no longer pure; one offered to harm another is worse still. So watch the doer, not the doing. Where there is no craving for the fruit, no sense of 'mine,' no attachment, your action does not bind you at all, it has become akarma even while you act. And where attachment and craving sit in the heart, you are truly bound even while you sit perfectly still. The work, then, is quiet and continuous: examine the disposition you bring, again and again, for that is where freedom or bondage is actually decided.

Sit with this · Swami Ramsukhdas

All the translations and commentary7 translations

Pull up a chair.

You have come to sit with this verse. When you are ready to hear the translators and the commentators in full, tap a name in The seating.

Where this teaching echoesin the Haripath